SCRIPT FOR THE "WALL" INTERVIEW WITH IOANA NEMES

The "Wall" project / CD for Green Box exhibition, May 04 R: reporter (his voice will be made more thick) IN: ioana nemes, the artist ………………………………………………………………….

R: Let's see… an interview with the romanian artist Ioana Nemes, on ….April, 2004. It's …pm. How old are you? IN: In March, on 23 I've made 25. R: Yeah… 25… You are at the beginning of your career… IN: You could say so… …………………………………………………………………

R: So, well… we'll both gonna speak a horrible english, the european one… IN: Yeah… neither british nor american… R: I saw one photo with your "Wall" project and it made me curious to fiind more about it; why would someone do that on his wall at home, and all that… but let's start with the beginning… you've practised sport… High performance sport actually… IN: Yeah, I did handball for almoust 9 years… it took me all my childhood, but it was extremely fun… things got more serious when I was selected in the senior team, the big one, from the local sport club "Rapid", and then at the Romanian junior national team…From then on, every game was becoming serious, there were a lot of money involved in it, and I could no more play freely and iresponsable as I used to do… R: You experienced somehow the passing from inocent playing, to the more responsible, professional one… IN: Yeah, but I couldn't say that I was suddently more responsible on the sport field… actually I never was… I never understood how one can play after some over- rehearst schem[schi:m]… this are things invented by the coach, because he is fustrated that cannot participate directly into the game… and he wants to control somehow, what is going onto the field… that's why, when I was playing I didn't care a bit what the people who were outside of the field were saying… cause it's such a difference being outside or inside the field… ………………………………………………………………...

R: How come that you turn on to art? IN: Because I had a serious knee accident, and I had to do an operation, and then an exhausting physical training for recovery, that at the end didn't turn out a success… so, instead of trying to play a mediocre handball, I decided to stop alltogheter and start something else… something that had nothing to do anymore with the handball game… I remember that everybody was shocked at my radical decision… but I just did it, you know…whithout thinking too much… R: And why ART? IN: Well, it wasn't such an alien decision as one may think… after all, I used to draw a lot before starting the Art University… I used to draw hundred of faces, trying to make it as beautifull as possible…and then with my brother we would arrange a sort of a beauty contest, and give marks, and finally after hours and hours of serious deliberations, we would choose Miss Whatever, from whatever country and with whatever hobbyies, and so on… and then, later, I started the music boysband phase… R: the boysband phase? IN: Yeah… in which I would pretend that I'm the manager of a boysband, and invent them from the scratch…giving names, ages, and hobbyies…. And make a lot of drawings with them in a concert, with them at restaurant taking a dinner, with them in a teenager magazine…. Hundreds of drawings with my band having successes after successes… I was complety mad about it… R: Wow… it's like trying to control the mass-media power…of manipulating… IN: Yeah… I didn't like to be manipulated, so, to defend myself I tried in turn to manipulate an invisible audience that would consume in a way my drawings… It's a great pity that I don't have them anymore… I've lost them… R: Did you used to make only drawings? IN: No, when I grew up, I started to experiment with the oil painting…It was fun, cause I had no traning at all, no artistic background… R: And what kind of paintings where you doing? IN: I used to cut out small details from the magazines… and then to stick them on a paper, to make a collage [ka'laj]… I loved to take out an object from its original context, and by replacing its context, to change its initial meaning… things like that… R: But how did they look? IN: they where big oil paintings, either black and white, or extremely colorful… and with an expressionism touch…. R: Do you still have them? IN: No, I gave them to my best then friend, Kate who now is somewhere on a cruise ship teaching fittness…I've lost her track…. ………………………………………………………………

R: hmmm… thinking about this two apparently incompatible [inkam'paetebl] worlds, do you fiind any similarities beetwen sport and art? IN: Beetwen sport and art?… yeah… the schedule …the fact that you have to work hours and hours to be able to do something valuable in the final act, being game… or exhibition…then, the fact that you travel a lot… all this routine…But, what makes things different now, is that when you come back from such an expedition, you don't know anymore if you lost or win… so the confrontation is not so direct as in sport… R: Yeah, but here the public becomes in a way your main opponent… IN: Yeah… and the public is usually very cosy… …………………………………………………………………

R: And then you entered into the Art School… IN:Yeah, a lot of big frustrations of not having money to buy films… so, I used to draw the photos that I would like to make it… a lot of day-dreaming… till my professor, Iosif Kiraly gave me some films and so, I started to seriously think about doing pictures… R: What was the influence that Ioji, your teacher, and one of the most important Romanian contemporary artist had upon you… and upon your generation? IN: Well, he was actually the one that showed us that photography meant something more than image, something more than shapes and color… he introduced the terms "philosophy" and "conceptual photography" in our vocabulary… thus we started to think before we would push the button…also I borrowed a lot of nice books from his library… I think we were quite lucky in having him… because, in rest, the school system is bullshit from the ground… you have to ask yourself why some of the best students never finished their studies… cause the system prefers only mediocrity… that's why… it's not flexible for those who deserve it… R: I know that you've been expelled in your turn, from the University… IN: Yeah… it was a stupid thing… R: Why did they do that? IN: It was just before finishing my last year and my university degree…and I had an artistic residency in Vienna, and I wasn't careful enough with the rules of the system, and so I underestimated its seriousness… something like that… ………………………………………………………………

R: I would like to talk with you, about the phases you passed through, in descovering photography… you wrote that you perceived it somehow, organically… IN: Yeah… at the beginning I felt that the photographs could be "tasted" through the gustative analyser…that you can feel its taste in a way or another… I really thought that, similar with the perfumed small trees that you have in the car in order for the air to be fresh all the time, photographs could be consumed… and I did, perceived it organically… And then, later, I started to ask myself a lot of questions, and thinking of what was I doing…So I began to make some stupid series, like for example, a chewing gum stucked on different materials, that would play the role of a small, frustrated fluff… or, the "dead objects" series, in which I draw with a chalk on the street - pavement, the contour of different objects that were supposed to be a sort of VIP's in Romania,… you know, pretzels, cell phones, bingo tickets, platform shoes… that kind of stuff… and then, taking pictures of this drawings in a manner of a criminal police report… pretty naive… R: And after all those experiments… IN: After all those experiments, I asked myself why I was doing it? Why ART? I mean, thinking of my different background…I saw art as a slippery domain, with no clear rules or borders, a domain that one cannot grasp totally its meaning… being so divers and chaotic[kei'atik]… I perceived art as a battlefield of ideas and shapes and colors, where everyone is the winner and in the same time the looser… R: Like not existing simple classifications as in the soccer newspaper?... IN: No, there are, but not made taking account of the artistic (conceptual) value of the art work, but merely on its packaging quality, its marketing support… R: But these aren't part of the capitalist art market? IN: Yeah… and I'm angry, because it is supposed that a Romanian (or East-European) artist doesn't have the financial courage, so to speak… to produce a… a huge pink sheep… or a lamb… imagine! …a 12 meters pink sheep in the middle of Bucharest… R Yeah… but this sounds as a disappointment of, purely not having the money to make such a giant sculpture… IN: Noo, but it's also about Western expectations of the East resources… about the limitations that we have in producing such a financially demanding sculpture… or anything else… it was just an example… R: Yeah… but those limitations brought the creativity at its utmost level… IN: I would say that the system in which I live is highly creative, that political corruption and burocracy are in their own sense, highly creative… that the unsecurity of tomorrow is extremely creative… all this stuff makes me and others as well, creative… R: But now McDonald and its system, has a lot of admirers in Romania… IN: Yeah, it's true… we have to enjoy the freedom till we have it… …………………………………………………………………

R: Back to your "Wall"project… how it appeared? IN: I was looking for an answer to the question: "What I'm doing here?" and… I began to observe and anlyse my efficiency in producing whatever I was producing… I started to look at myself as a kind of an utopian, unuseful machine, that needs gasoline in order to function, to produce inefficient art works… R: Why do you call it inefficient? IN: For the simple fact that on a basic level, in a normal working day, people don't need art… only in weekends, you know, when they finished thier jobs and are looking for recreation… even then, people can easily despense of art and go to a picknick or to a soccer game…or worse, watching TV programms… In fact, ART is the first one, to be cut off, if in a TV schedule, something has to be cut off.. . I mean, it's reality… So, I call my products inefficient and utopian because, even if there is no clearly demand from the public , I still produce it… R: Why do you produce it? Why are you making ART? IN: First of all, because I hate to be in a rigid system… I hate to be only a machine that function in a previously definite[def'nit] enviroment… And then, I dislike expectations of any kind…when I'm faced with expectations I just play against them… And also cause, my imagination is so unpractical, that I feel that I cannot fit easly into some fixed directions… R: But you also managed to work after some directions…the last Christmass Tree that you made it for the "Save the Children" contest, was called "Shopping Mountain" right?… and it was a powerful visual object, a shopping bag transformed into a luxuriant mountain, where fashion addicts and glamour consumers tryed to survive in an aseptic[ei'septik], yet rich world… IN: I loved a lot that tree, because, even if it looked very stylish and beautiful, I managed to bring a critique towards consumerism… towards the spectators… that were very much alike those shopping addictive characters from my mountain…And that's why they didn't like it…but I was happy that I could break the routine, and as a Trojan horse, enter in the middle and deliver my message…. But coming back at what you said about working in accordance with outside directions, a creative brief, so to speak… depends a lot how flexible things are…and , most important WHO IS MAKING THE RULES?… and FOR WHOM?.. anyway I had to have the freedom to interpret those rules, to change their meanings.. if I feel so… R:Do you enjoy strict rules? Those limitations… IN: Yes, I do…but they need to be logical, to have a common sense, I mean, to give creativity space to breath… Limitations, for an overly creative person, could help, in focusing on one point only… in concentrating the energy , in order to become more powerful... …………………………………………………………………

R: we have to start talking about the "Wall"project… IN: Of course… R:Can you briefly describe it? IN: Yeah.. physically, the "Wall" is my wall from where I live, a normal wall that I use as a huge bulletin board - similar to the one used in offices, in order to discipline my activities… So, I decided to divide my wall in two parts: the right side represents the entries, notes pointing at "TO DO" projects, and the left side, showing the "EXITS", done projects…. The idea is to move the notes that represent unrealised projects, ideas that exist only on paper as sketches, from the right part of the wall to the left one, meaning realized projects that meet the public in galleries, magazines, net articles and so on… And then I take photographs every time when something is changing onto the wall… Thus, I document this difficult process of turning ideas into reality… R: Why you name it difficult? IN: Because it's so difficult to transform ideas into reality…Sometimes , I wonder why the human brain is so equipped with such a fruitful imagination, if the reality can't deal with it.. To put it simple, the society in wich we live doesn't need so much creativity, or is not able to fully profit from it… I feel that it's an enormous waste of human creativity because the capitalist structures love only to package their products with it, BUT not to use it… you know, efficiency, calculability, predictability and … control, this four words that describe any business and its economical success, have nothing to do with creativity… R: Yeah, think of those ideas that were never written on paper… and thus, are lost… IN: No, great ideas have the quality of coming back, in a way or another… R: So, in your "Wall" project you try to push yourself, to force unpalpable ideas to become real, to materialize them into projects, that further meet the public…How many projects succeed in shifting from the left side of the wall and become reality? IN: Not many…There are one, two or maximum three projects per month, but that depends a lot on their size, complexity and budget required… Totally, there are like four or five important stuff per year… ………………………………………………………………

R: M-hmmm… You started the "Wall" project three years ago, right? IN: yes… R:I've seen some old photos of it and it looks so chaotic… and so primitive… IN: Yes, I love those pictures in which everything was so untidy, disordered and chaotic… I love to watch how the process is going on, how things got disciplined and how, the small notes on the wall become standardized and systematized… How, by adding certain colors in accordance with the features of the projects, yellow for books that I read, blue for projects realized in common with somebody else, red color for exhibitions, green one for mass-media appearences, and so on… Also for the fetus-like-projects from the right part of the wall, now they are displayed in accordance with their characteristics: big, small or medium in size, and urgent or long-term projects, important or less important… R: Looks like history is happening really fast onto your wall… IN: Yeah, it's a home made fast-history… R: what you are doing onto the wall, the fact that you try all the time to rationalize the process, to make it more efficient… Aren't you afraid that by introducing this counting process of your daily artistic activities, you could diminish their quality? I mean…By trying to make many projects, fast, and superficial, only in order to have activities onto the wall? IN: Yes. You're right. The "Wall" holds that risk…but this is the tendency of any system that is multiplied, and as you see, I do have no intention in exporting the wall… R: But you do export it… when you show it to the public, when you print hundred of copyes with its pictures…Why did you choose to multiply this CD in 500 copyes? Why not presented only the original, in the gallery space? IN: I did it because I wanted for the public to take it home with them… to listen it relaxed on a sofa, in their familiar enviroment, and not in the noise context of an opening… You know that at the opening, there is relatively difficult to concentrate on someone's works, so usually you just come back next day to take a closer look to the works… It's like this…at the openings people socialize, drink wine and eat cookies…I hate that, because there is a general tendency towards entertainment, and art galleries contain this risk too… R: What you underline here is the lack of seriousness in today's society… IN: Yeah… even the most dramatic, revolutionary and extremist opinions will be homogenized by this entertainment tendency, generated by the entertainment culture of our century…look into history, how conceptual antisystem statements have been classified, labeled and finally sold as a fancy commodity… Because there is a predilection in nature towards equilibrum and horizontality… towards acceptance… R: But aren't you looking for stability also? …In your "Looking for stability" photographic series, I felt this urge towards normality and stability… IN: Yes, because of my family context…I grew up in a disturbing - both physical and psychological enviroment, taking in consideration the fact that my mum was suffering from the mental illness schyzophrenia[skitsa'frinia]…and now, also my twin brother, Bob has it… due probably to the context in wich we grew up, but also to the inheritance issue of this desease.. R: And your father? IN:Wow… he was more than invisible, and when he wasn't, he could not understand what was his role in the family, and use to destroy everything… especially the communication beetwen us… But anyway, we inherited his prolific imagination, you know…he is an engine inventor… R: Mmmm, that's sound like a Hollywood story… IN: Yeah…Hollywood, but mother fucking real… R: So, you look all the time for stability, also in your "Wall" project… IN: I'm looking for dreams that can be made reality…I need to count realities that were made from dreams… R: Ioana, aren't you afraid that, because of the family background with schyzophrenia, you could also not be able to figure out what is reality and what is not? IN: Yeah…I'm scared by death of not being able to make the distinction between virtual, imaginary life, and the real one… But somehow, with the "Wall" project in front of me everyday I'm assured that I do live in reality…that I'm able to make things happen, and enjoy the process of ideas "becoming reality"… R: What are your dreams? IN: My dreams? R: Yeah, your dreams… IN: My reality dreams, those that concern my real life are pretty naive, and consist in realizing a legal platform (that could be an art magazine, an art gallery or whatever) in which I could invest further dreams… But if you mean by "dreams", hallucinations, dreams that come from my black box, I mean the ungovernable subconscious, Then I do have a place, a virtual one in which I hide when I'm facing a problem bigger than me… R: can you describe this place? IN:Yeah… It's a perfect hospital room… It's a beautiful super white room with fresh air and green sparklings from the outside landscape…Next to my bed, there is a table, a white one with metal legs, and with a transparent, perfectly hygienic[hai'genik] glass of mineral water on top of it…and some red flowers, or better some purple flowers…In this room the temperature is always perfect, not too cold and not too hot…And here I am, on the bed, breathing the fresh, mentholated air that comes from the oxygen mask, which is made from a special transparent rubber with some small, geometrically arranged holes…And outside, through a big window I can see the green leaves, the olive and the bright yellow ones and the sparkling sunbeam that passes through them…and touches my face…stuff like that…it's a normal happy enviroment…I think… R:But aren't you afraid to be alone? IN:But if you look deeper, we always are alone in a way or another…especially in a physical suffering… …………………………………………………………………

R: I saw that in your project you started to mark the notes on the wall with colors, in accordance with their features… What do you think about colors, and, which is your favorite? IN:Colors are useful to signalize the difference between distinct categories, at least, this is their function in the "Wall"project…But colors are more important and valuable than that…definitely, I see colors as some, letters from an alphabet which can be used in a special language…and, to research on that language, could be more than fascinating, since it has to deal not only with systems that form a language, BUT also with psychology, and the human subjective attitude towards color…I'm fascinated by colors… R: And your favorite color? IN: I usually have a group of colors that is changing simultaneously with my growing, and life experiences… for example the last year's colors where purple, olive green, silver, white and perhaps dark pink… but I don't know what colors I would have in mind this year…maybe silver, grey, black, white and some others colors… R: your colours look black and white this year… IN: I love black and white…they give space to the concepts… ………………………………………………………………

R:I think that the end of our interview is coming closer, so…I would just let you finish… IN: Why me?..I don't like the endings… being so pathetic… R:Yeah… but any beginning has its ending… IN: Yeah… you're right…